Ep 105 - The Sum of All Fears Enhanced

We are bringing back the most popular episode of 2023! In this episode, James and Dan McNally discuss the topic of fear, especially as it relates to Catholic men. They share personal fears and discuss the importance of overcoming them. They also explore the value of discomfort and stepping outside of one's comfort zone. They address the fears of paranormal activity and provide insights on how to approach such topics, especially spiritual warfare. The conversation concludes with a reflection on living with conviction and less fear by embracing the reality of God and heaven. The main takeaway is the importance of surrendering our fears to God and sharing our encounter with Christ with others.

Takeaways

• Fear is a common experience for everyone, and it can often paralyze us or prevent us from taking action.
• Stepping outside of our comfort zones and embracing discomfort is essential for personal growth and becoming the best version of ourselves.
• Scary stories and movies can have moral value and provide opportunities for reflection on good versus evil.
• It is important to approach fears of paranormal activity with a balanced perspective, recognizing the power of God's love and protection. Recognize the reality of spiritual warfare and the presence of God in the midst of it.
• Be intentional in consuming media and consider the value and purpose behind what we watch.
• Live with conviction and less fear by embracing the reality of God and heaven.
• Surrender our fears to God and share our encounter with Christ with others.

Like what you heard? Maybe you just enjoy reading James’s show notes? Please prayerfully consider supporting the podcast on our Patreon page. to help grow the show to reach as many men as possible! Thank you for your prayers and support. 

As always, please pray for us! We are men who are striving every day to be holy, to become saints and we cannot do that without the help of the Holy Ghost! 

Get social with us:

Follow us on

Mystic Monk Coffee
For the best cup of coffee for a great cause, Mystic Monk Coffee is the choice for you!

TAN Books - Become a Saint! 
TAN is offering 15% off to you! Use code "manlycatholic" at checkout to help support the podcast.

TAN Books - Become a Saint!
TAN is offering 15% off to you! Use code "manlycatholic" at checkout to help support the podcast.

Exodus 90
Gain freedom. Change your life. Become a saint. Exodus

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Transcript

James Caldwell (00:00.878)
Hello all, welcome to another episode of The Manly Catholic. This is James, your host, and today I'm bringing you guys the most viewed episode we have ever had on the podcast. It is from, I didn't even see the date. It was from episode 70, and it was titled The Sum of All Fears. So I really wanted to play this for you guys, especially with everything going on in the world, chaos ensuing. And I thought it was really applicable.

We talked a few times about fear in 2023 and how fear, especially as Catholics can grip us, can paralyze us, can cause us to freeze, can cause us not to act or cause maybe to act in a way we didn't want to. And I thought this was just, again, another episode. Again, it's the most viewed episode we've ever had. And it was with Dan McNally and myself. We talked about a wide variety of topics, especially the most common fears that men face.

I know Father Donomy gave a talk about fear as a Catholic man, which is also posted on the podcast. And we talked about scary movies. Is it okay to watch scary movies as a Catholic? And sort of what we, what should we find comfort in? What should we seek out when we are facing these fears that we all face? We all are afraid at one point or another. So we talked about the quiet place with John Krasinski from, or AKA Jim from the office. Talk about many different things.

So I wanted to replay this guy for you guys. Again, we're in California this week. Hope you're praying for us. I hope we made it safely. I'm sure we did. And I just, yeah, I'm enjoying the California sunshine. So for those of you listening back in Michigan, I am sorry. But again, thank you so much for listening. This is a blast from the past episode, from episode 70. It's called The Sum of All Fears with Dan McNally. Hope you guys enjoy. God bless.

Do you guys ever become afraid? Do you ever freeze up in certain situations? Maybe you fail to act when you know you should have. Or maybe you just are afraid of having that difficult conversation that you know you should have had three weeks ago with your wife, girlfriend, your son, your teacher. Whatever the case may be, we are afraid far too often. And that is this week's episode.

James Caldwell (02:22.286)
Hi, I'm James Caldwell, host of The Manly Catholic, and I am a humble layman, husband, and father, and I'm just like all of you trying to be a saint. Today we are joined once again by Dan McNally, former theology teacher at Sacred Heart Parish here in beautiful Grand Rapids, Michigan, and I, like all of you, am a coward at times. As St. Paul says in his letter to the Romans, for I do not understand my own actions, for I do not,

do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. We all struggle with fear to some degree, could be big, could be small. But join us in this week's episode to see how we can overcome our fear and rely on the one and only person who can actually help us with our fears, Jesus Christ. Thank you all so much for tuning in and I hope you all enjoy. Welcome to

the Manly Catholic. In this podcast, we will inspire, challenge, and equip all men to become the men they were created to be. Join us as we journey together to become the best versions of ourselves and strive to change our communities one man at a time.

James Caldwell (03:49.102)
Is that because of fear? Whoa, and that's our topic today, you guys. Wow, hello all and welcome to another episode. We're recording. Welcome to another episode of Man of the Catholic. We're gonna restart. Oh man. Or should I keep it? Should we just keep rolling? It was charming. Let's just keep rolling. Dan McNally is back. Hey guys. How's it going, Dan? Great.

We are doing a second episode with you. You were brought back for more. What an honor. See Papa Joe with a cup of Joe. That was my joke. They know that from last episode. What if they're just tuning in now? Oh, fair enough, fair enough. All right. Well, that was Dan's joke. I like to steal his jokes. If you already listen, I'm sorry. Very funny.

James Caldwell (04:45.262)
Anyways, we're gonna just start in prayer. Do you wanna lead us, Mr. McNally? I, yeah. Are you sure? Yeah. You hesitated. Yeah. Let's do it. Now, if we're doing a St. Michael prayer, we gotta agree on which one we're gonna say, protection or safeguarding? Protection. Let's do protection. All right.

Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Saint Michael the Archangel defend us in battle, in our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray. And do thou, Prince of the heavenly hosts, by the power of God cast into hell Satan and all evil spirits who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen. Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. Saint Patrick. Pray for us. Speaking of Saint Patrick. Whoa! In R.

Beautiful, I have a unicorn, what do you have? I have a corgi. Yes, these are from Anthropologie by the way. Free shout out, we got this on our wedding registry. Sad story, okay. My wife really likes French Bulldogs. We had a French Bulldog coffee cup. She was going to work one day. She left the French Bulldog mug on top of her car. Oh no. And it broke as she drove away. I'm really sorry.

He didn't warn me about this story, so I'm gonna need a second. So he's gonna cry a little bit, and I'm gonna tell you guys about Catholic Coffee. Catholic Coffee is what we're, hey, what are we drinking tonight? I believe it is the St. Patrick's Irish Cream, not to be confused with sour cream. Yeah, because then we couldn't be friends with the sour cream. St. Patrick's Irish Cream, it is delicious. I think it's quite lovely. I'm not getting paid to say this. I know you're not, neither am I. It's incredible. But if you guys do purchase,

From Catholic Coffee, I will leave you a link in the show notes. Type in promo code MANLY and you get 15 % off your order. I'm gonna be using that code. You should be. Because the more you buy, the more free coffee I get. So please just keep going. And then you get to have some. I mean, what more is there to life? See, and then all you listeners out there, if you buy the coffee, you might be able to come on the show and share some coffee with me. That's how I got here. See? And as an aspiring Manly Catholic, um...

James Caldwell (07:01.902)
I gotta be true to my word. I already told you I was gonna use that code, so I will go buy some. Oh, yes. I like it. Here we go. What are we talking about tonight? Fear. I was gonna try to do something spooky, but none of it would've worked. Fear, the fear factor. This is kind of unscripted, I don't know. You said you had some stuff about fear that you wanna talk I just wanted to have an open conversation with James Caldwell about fear, because when we were originally talking about this topic, it was spooky season.

as some people like to say. The season that leads up to All Hallows Eve. Exactly. And you know, I think we have, there's some potential for some spicy questions and conversations to have around this topic. Is it okay to watch scary movies? Is there any value or virtue in that? I think another, I don't know. And fear is, I feel like we are all.

fearful of something. Oh, of course. There's so many things that we could be afraid of. Um, but since your podcast is about, uh, being a manly Catholic as best we can, what are the things that we're afraid of? What are the things that are going to prevent us from being, from being a manly Catholic? So I just want to hear a little bit of maybe some of the things that maybe you've overcome something that you've been afraid of kind of in, in that journey. Um,

to faith, specifically to the Catholic faith, maybe things that you're worried about just as a man, as a father, as whatever, and how we kind of struggle with those and the resources that the church provides and that the Lord provides to kind of overcome that fear. This sounds like your podcast. Oh, well, I mean, it's just, I'm just rocking and rolling here. See, this is your second episode and you're already too comfortable. This is James' last episode.

I'm transitioning out of the podcast business. This is awkward. Do you wanna know my, well. I can, no, you ask me the questions, I'll answer. I have a fear of not being liked. I have a fear of conflict. I don't like confrontation and I don't like knowing that people don't like me. Yeah.

James Caldwell (09:25.742)
I'm still working on those, especially being Catholic. Obviously the world hates me naturally because I go, if I'm truly a Catholic, I'm going against most of what the culture teaches nowadays. Yeah, I don't know. I just have never really liked conflict. I try to avoid it. And I don't really know why. I mean, I don't think you could go out trying to pick fights with people.

for the heck of it, I think that is not virtuous or something to strive for either, but at the same time, you need to be able to.

stand up for what you believe in. I think I'm afraid of being a coward. And, you know, I was listening to Father Mike Schmitz, he posts homilies every day, or not every day, or for every Sunday. And the one for today, he was talking about, I forget who he was quoting, but he said, the man said, it is worse to die than to die.

Oh, he says the coward dies a thousand different times, but a man of virtue only dies once or something like that. The taste of death. Yes, there you go. See, I'm terrible at quoting people. No, it's such a good...

And Shakespeare, I think. Is it Shakespeare? Of course it's Shakespeare. But yeah, so that's something I'm trying to grow in virtue. I have a lot of pride and I think that's what leads a lot to these things that I fear. So that's my answer. So what is the worst thing that could happen in those situations? Not near what I think would happen. I mean, what I'm like embarrassed for a little bit.

James Caldwell (11:20.026)
I look stupid. I am wrong, I guess. I don't like being wrong and I don't like people knowing that I'm not correct or like they know, I don't know what I'm trying to say. I don't like people knowing that I don't know something, I think. Does that make sense? Yeah, I mean, yeah. Like I said on the last episode,

being a teacher for several years, especially with something that can be as controversial as theology and something that can be as technical. I didn't know a lot of things most of the time. I feel like that could be my motto for life actually. I don't know a lot of things. Fake it till you make it. Write that down.

James Caldwell (12:13.71)
But I guess, so like when I was teaching, I would have this part of the board that was dedicated to the questions that they would ask that I didn't know the answer to. And so I would frequently not know the answer, but I think again, if it comes, if they see kind of the genuineness and the humility of like, Hey, I don't claim to be the expert on all of these topics, but I will find you an answer and we can talk about it more then. And I think, yeah, that, that helped me a lot from, from the perspective of being afraid of,

being wrong. Um, but it's funny how that chain goes. So like, I, I have, I think a lot of us have this, this sort of tendency, maybe just me, but this tendency to kind of catastrophize after one thought, especially when it's something in regards to something we're afraid of, like I'm afraid of being wrong because that means I'm going to make a mistake because that, and that means,

that I'm gonna get in trouble at work and then I'm gonna lose my job and then I'm not gonna have money to provide for, well for me it's for just me, but for you it's for a family. And it's like, and ultimately it means that I'm not good enough or something like that. Like I'm curious to know, I think it's always worthwhile to kind of examine, what's at the bottom of that? Well exactly, I mean so there's nothing wrong with that train of thought because I'm afraid of being a coward. Okay, then you use that, okay why are you afraid of that?

Because if you keep following that line of thinking, you'll get to the heart of the matter, right? So, you know, I, wow, shoot, what was I gonna ask you?

James Caldwell (13:52.526)
See, I'm losing my train of thought now. I can stall for you. You could, that's okay. This is your podcast now. So you gotta get good at stalling for the guest. I'm the guest now. But no, I mean, so, yeah, so fear. Okay, so why do we fear things? And that's a really good question. Because if you think about it, most things we fear, like for me, for instance, if you really break it down, it's an unwarranted fear.

You know, and I mean, you guys all know this, but I mean, fear, you know, in the Bible it says do not be afraid in some version one way or another, like 365 times or something. So, like every day of the year, every day of the year. It's like a kind of a place map. Yeah, exactly. A place map. It's a little cheesy, but it's also very. But there's also a reason for that too. I mean, yeah, we may think, oh, okay, whatever, but there's a reason God.

says it so many times because he knows that we fear things, right? And it's when you truly become a saint, it's when you let go of that fear and give it to Jesus. Because then you really, if you look at the surface of it, you really have nothing, especially if you're living in the United States, we have nothing to fear, right? So, I mean, granted, there's people around the world who, they're afraid that if I go to church, I might get shot.

You know, there's legitimate fears out there right now, you know, for people like that in the United States where we live, that's not a fear at all. Everything we fear is all in our head, right? Um, I think that's something we have to come back to is how much stuff is just in our head. Well, I'm up with it ourselves. Well, I mean, I was reading, um, was it, was it Fulton Sheen or I forget it was, it was get to heaven. Um, I forgot who wrote that book. Sounds like a Fulton Sheen.

Yeah, right, so it get to heaven and he said, you know, back in, you know, 13th, 14th century, there were legitimate fears, you know, plague and constant wars and death and, you know, is my baby gonna make it, you know, because infant mortality rate was super high. Now, like most of that is gone. Like we know where our next meal is gonna be. We have clean water, we have clothes, we have shelter. Like most of those,

James Caldwell (16:12.726)
necessities are taken care of. So everything we fear, everything we are anxious about is all made up essentially in our head, right? So if we conquer that, if we give it to God, then the fear is gone. So much of that is based on thoughts that we have produced for ourselves. Actually, Dr. Greg Butaro talks about that in Mindful Catholic. He talks about kind of how,

in modern society, we don't have, you know, and believe what you want on, on kind of like evolutionary theory, but you know, the suggestion is that like hardwired into our body is that fight flight or freeze mechanism that's about self preservation. And because we don't live in a time when we're constantly in danger, our body has like adapted that to, to stuff that we shouldn't actually be afraid of.

How interesting. It's almost like our mind hasn't had the opportunity to adapt to the fact that like we're pretty comfy, you know? And so we kind of, again, I don't want to misquote him, check out the book. It's awesome. But, uh, but one of the, one of the takeaways that I had from that is we, we kind of sort of invent that for ourselves and we can take control of that. We are really empowered, I think by scripture, by our faith to, and by common sense, if we have a moment to, to sit back and breathe.

but we don't because our culture is so busy. We're so loud and we're so busy and, and, and you don't, I mean, if you don't, if you're not intentional about it, you, you don't have quiet time. You just, you just can't. And that's every part of life. He even talked about it in his book. Like when he was in grad school, he was busy and he's like, Oh man, it's, I've never been busier. But then when he was starting his own practice and starting a family, he was even busier, busier, busier, busier. And everything was crazy. And it's like, you have to be intentional about guarding.

that time to have silence because it's kind of in that silence where God speaks. But if we're constantly just taking in noise, we don't even have a chance to kind of re -center ourselves and it can get, you can get off your center and you're not, I guess in the most human sense, appropriately responding to something from your will. You're kind of just basically reacting to everything. And it's again, I'm not doing it justice, but he talks, goes really into depth about.

James Caldwell (18:35.566)
about this kind of being mindful and just like being able to recognize what thoughts you're producing for yourself and kind of overcome those. But, ooh, I see you're pulling up another book. Have you read this one? No, I haven't, but I wanna read it just because of the title. It's excellent. So I've talked about this on the podcast before, but it's called The Comfort Crisis, Embrace Discomfort to Reclaim Your Wild, Happy, Healthy Self. It's by Michael Easter. I love this book. I listened to it on,

audible and It was talking about a little bit what you were talking about Dan. It's

Basically he he talks about how we are always Stimulated constantly right and he said our brains Our ancestors were not like that there was there was downtime there was periods of boredom, right? And I know like even like child Psychologists they talk about how it is not your job to entertain your child they need to Yeah, exactly and it's it actually boredom I

is when creativity flourishes. And the problem is that we are always stimulated. I mean, think about it. You go to the bathroom, you pull your phone out because you want to check something. You are in line. You pull out your cell phone. It makes us very stupid because we are constantly stimulated and our brain has no chance to just relax and do its own thing except when it sleeps. But then we're

It's worried about doing everything else. You know, recharging us and repairing what broke down during the day and things like that. But, you know, the thing that stuck out, because in the comfort crisis, see, if you guys remember, he goes on basically this big hunting trip, okay? And he basically does a chapter and he talks about hunting and then he goes to a global topic and then he goes, like he's slowly moving along this journey in the hunting trip.

James Caldwell (20:40.718)
But he's talking about the importance of doing something that's really hard. He said daily if you can, but for him what he does, he goes on like a trip every year. And he says, I forget, he has a name for it, but the idea is that you do something that you have about a 50 % chance of failing at. Because when you do it, there always should be a point where you are this close to giving up. You say like, I can't do it. So for some people it's, I wanna,

Like you've never ran before so like a 5k might be something that's just super challenging for you, right? and so you start running and There's a point that you're like I want to quit like I'm gonna quit but then he said even most of the the struggles that we face like whether it's physical or mental it's it's it's Everything we do is a mental challenge essentially. And so if you can train your mind to break past that

that level of discomfort. Like you're amazed at what you can tap into. You know David Boggins, right? Yeah. Is it Boggins or Goggins? Goggins, sorry, excuse me. So he talks about this too and I mean he has very colorful language but he was a Navy SEAL and, oh what, was he a Ranger? Two? I don't know. Okay, sorry. Well I know he was a SEAL but he failed the SEAL training like three times and I think,

The first two are because of injury, and the third one I forget what it was, but he was talking about it, and he was saying, because he was super overweight, he was really unhealthy, and he finally just woke up one day and said, you know what, no one's gonna change this for me, I have to do it myself. And so he talks about it in his book, again, it's very colorful language, so viewer discretion is advised, but the point of it is that,

We live in such a state of comfort that we are afraid to step outside of our comfort zone or that box. Even if, for those who do like Exodus 90, like for most men, the hardest thing they do is the cold shower. So why is that? It's because it's discomforting for us, right? Like, okay, I can cut down the TV or whatever, like that's not that big of a deal. We become really bad at being uncomfortable. Exactly, but that is where we thrive. Yeah.

James Caldwell (23:03.598)
is embracing the discomfort, embracing the embarrassing, embracing the things that we don't wanna do and saying I'm gonna do it because I know it's good for me. But too many of us don't wanna step outside of that comfort zone to challenge ourselves beyond what we're capable of. And the reward of accomplishing difficult things lasts forever. Like there's...

I used to run a lot more than I do now. And when I ran my first half marathon, like I got that 13 .1 sticker and I put it on my car and it wasn't for like other people be like, Oh, look at how athletic I am. Look at how great, like that sticker was for me every day to be like, you've done a great thing. Like you've done a challenging thing. And a reminder of that, I'll look up a quote at some point, there's an amazing quote about mountain climbing actually, because there's,

Hey everyone, thank you so much for listening to this episode. I wanted to just take a quick break and tell you about this amazing product that I know you guys will love. You guys know I will not share with something that I'm not passionate about. And this has to do with two favorite things of mine, the saints and coffee. Combine that into one product, you get Catholic Coffee. This product is amazing, you guys. I drink this almost every day. They have.

coffees like St. Michael, the Archangel Dark Rose, Our Lady of Guadalupe Mexican Mocha, St. Patrick's Irish Cream, Padre Pio, Express Rose, and so much more. Guys, if you guys are a father out there like me or a priestly father, you wake up early in the morning, do your daily prayers, what else would you rather have but a nice cup of hot steaming coffee? And you can learn more about the saints, whether it's St. Therese of Lesault,

but near and dear Saint to my heart, Saint Joan of the Ark, Sleeping Saint Joseph, Saint Peter, and so much more, you guys. They have so much great products. You can buy one bag, you can subscribe and save, or they ship a new bag of Coffee Review every four months, every six months. They also have some awesome products that you can purchase, like a Travelers Mug as well. Guys, you don't want to miss this, and with you,

James Caldwell (25:25.838)
for our listeners, you can have a special discount code where you just type in the promo code MANLY, that's M -A -N -L -Y. Again, MANLY in the promo code, you get 15 % off of your purchase. So again, go to CatholicCoffee .com. I will put a link in the show notes for you guys to get 15 % off your order. Again, put the promo code MANLY, M -A -N -L -Y. That's enough of me chit chatting, enough of you guys having a break. Let's get back to that episode.

Um, there's a group out of Grand Rapids that goes out to Colorado every year. It's a nine day Catholic retreat. Um, it sounds awesome. Come with you and you, I went in 2017 when we summited to 14 years and you're out camping in the wilderness for nine days and you have mass every day. Every day. And it's absolutely wild. Like there were points and we're like,

where we were walking across this fallen tree. I mean, this was not a pre -marked off. I mean, this was a tree that fell across a river and we were walking over it. My friend Joe almost fell into a river and it was like rapids. I was like, this is real. We got to the summit of one of the mountains and it was a beautiful, perfect day. It was like 75 degrees at the summit. And then suddenly clouds were coming in from every single direction. And as we descended the mountain,

Dude, it was so humbling for me because I maybe humiliating is a better word because at one point, um, like as we're going down, I, the whole team was like doing great walking down this kind of snow field. So picture the, at the top of this mountain, it's like giant boulders and snow. And that's like all you've really got to work with. So you're either walking on slippery snow or you're managing this boulder and it's starting to rain. So these boulders are now wet and slippery.

and you have to like jump from boulder to boulder to get down. But there's no other way. You can't just sit there. Like you have to go. And it was one of the very few experiences in my life where I was like, I could actually die. Like I could actually die today. And there's something about that that, again, the reason it was, I get back to it, the reason it was humiliating for me was I kept slipping in the snow and like sliding down this snow field.

James Caldwell (27:51.182)
And you're supposed to, when you slide down the snow fields, well not when, like you don't want to expect to, but if you do, you're supposed to flip around, stick your butt up in the air and dig your fingers into the snow. But we had gone down from the top so fast that I hadn't had time to like reach in, get my gloves on, get my hat. So it's like cold. I'm digging my fingers into snow as I'm sliding down, trying not to die. And at one point and like my sunscreen got in my eyes. So like I couldn't see and it was burning. It was just this like very low point for me, but uh,

at one point the person who leads the trip, like I was, he's like, come here. And he's like, you have to put your hands under my shirt. And it's like, I had just gotten to this like very lowest, like I'm depending on this person. It's like socially, even just like a weird thing, cause it's not a thing you do in any other circumstances. Put your hands on someone's belly to like warm them up, but you have to do it. And it's this like, it really pushes and demands so much of you, but.

It's so much more rewarding than not trying something. Because then you look like, cause think of like, I'm telling you this story. I didn't even think about it until 30 seconds ago, but how vividly I still remember that because I actually did accomplish it, you know, and the value of having accomplished that it's, there's a quote from that I found from that trip. And I think I have it on my phone, but if I don't.

I'll find it later. You can put it in the show notes. It's incredible. It's like an amazing quote. What group is this? It's called Verso L 'Alto Ministries. Verso? Like Pier Giorgio Fersati's quote, Verso L 'Alto to the heights.

James Caldwell (29:28.782)
They're gonna get an influx of people applying for this trip now.

I can't find the quote, but the basic, the gist of the quote is like, I remember what I saw at the summits when I'm in the valley, because even when I'm in the valley, I'm not at the summit, but I remember all the things that I could see when I was there. Like the clarity of mind that you have when you've reached the summit, even when you're in the valleys, you never lose the memory of being up there and seeing what you saw. And that applies to literally, but it applies to spiritual life as well. So.

Anyway, I went off a little bit on that one. No, I like that. I love, I mean, anytime you can go back to Colorado. I lived in Colorado for two years, two and a half years, I don't if I told you that. So did Father Dominic.

Is it worth living in Colorado? We're in Colorado. Where are you guys? Right outside of Boulder. I hear it's amazing and I also hear it's horrible. Like it depends on who you talk to. Really? Who said it was horrible? I don't even remember. Do they say what? Do you remember why they said it was horrible? I overcrowded or. Oh no, no, no. I lived in California, okay? In LA County. Orange County, but right next to LA County. Right, right. Like that, no. It's not overcrowded. Colorado is beautiful.

Especially where we lived it was I mean every day you woke up and you know the Rocky Mountains were right there I mean it's hard to beat that I I love mountains, you know, that is my happy for my wife. She loves being by water. I love being near and in mountains I get why This might be an ignorant statement, but I get why like ancient cultures believed that like gods lived

James Caldwell (31:15.05)
Or like gods were embodied by things like mountains or oh, yeah, I can see that too for sure Like I like tempted to just fall right knees because it's so it's so overwhelming Yeah, it is I mean even like water and it's so like do you if you just like look at water and waves crashing or just like a really powerful river like holy cow like this this could kill me, you know, it's very humbling and being in nature and you're just like I'm literally at

the whim of the elements of nature. Like you guys were with snow and boulders and just trying to survive. The safer you are, the more, this is not a direct correlation, but I feel like I could safely say the safer you are, the more miserable you will eventually become. It's true. It's absolutely true. I think a great analogy, I was out going for a walk the other day and.

The other day it was actually like two and a half years ago, but I just say the other day for everything. Um, and I was looking up at the sky cause my friend Justin was telling me about how he had just gone out to Colorado and like just in like a camper and just like went out into the middle of nowhere and he could like, he had this like divine just interaction, like just being under the stars and being able to see all of them. Cause it was so far away. He went to the place that they say is the darkest spot in the United States, like the furthest away from any light pollution. And he said it's like transcendent.

And I was thinking about that pondering that while I was walking in my neighborhood and I looked up at the sky and I couldn't see any stars, but there was a street light right in my way. And like the image of like the street light is there to keep me safe, but it also is choking any connection with beauty. And I was like, that's such a, it's such a vivid image for me because.

We already, we talked about this Pope Benedict quote last time, but like, you were not made for comfort, you were made for greatness, and I can't, it resonates. Well even that quote too, it implies that you were not made for comfort, you were made for greatness, so that implies that you are going to experience discomfort in order to become great. So comfort is not what we are seeking, we are actually seeking the uncomfortable, because that's what's gonna make us great.

James Caldwell (33:30.894)
And I think it's a recognition of what you actually like your belief about the, about life and about the universe. Because if you're just seeking comfort, I feel like you can say what you believe, but you also live out what you believe by your actions. By the way you live your life. If I'm just seeking comfort and I'm, I'm going to indict myself before anybody else. I'm such a creature comforts. Oh yeah. So I'm terrible at that. Working on it, working on it. But if you're just seeking out comfort, it's, it's almost like,

It's like you're kind of just waiting to die. Like, like how many comfortable days can I assure? Can I ensure for myself before I have my eventual obliteration, right? As opposed to heaven is a reality and I have a call that is so much greater than myself and I have to rise to that call. So.

I was trying to connect that to fear, but it's, I think it's great standing by itself is this recognition of like the presence of discomfort. It's an invitation and it's a reminder. You know, we can try to avoid it and run from it, but it's, it's, it's that pricking of our conscience. It's the Holy spirit saying, Hey, remember that there's more than just, you know, your couch and your TV and your.

food that you can get within five minutes, any type of food that you want and your Amazon and your this and your that. I'm not saying that like we live in this day and age and we live in this culture and you know, there are certain things that in moderation, whatever it's, I'm not trying to get anybody. You're not dying. Just experiencing some discomfort.

That's the Holy Spirit. Touche. You know, we're not trashing any of the modern conveniences that we have, but what we're saying is it is good to step outside your comfort zone. Like if you know you're gonna have to wait, like turn off your cell phone or don't pull yourself, try to have a conversation with a stranger. You know, and it doesn't have to be this drastic thing, but I think the more we step outside these comfort zones, we can't help but grow. And that's all God wants for us is to grow closer to Him.

James Caldwell (35:42.062)
So I love that you're bringing it back to the practical because it's like as men who are, you know, seeking to be mainly Catholic, like what does that look like in our day to day life? How do we overcome fear? And, and, and again, our fears I feel like are so stupid. They're usually so stupid and so petty. Like they don't feel like it in the moment. I genuinely empathize. Yeah, no, like percent, but ultimately I feel like, you know, they, they just are at, they do end up being stupid. Right.

Do you know my favorite Bible verse? No. I told you a minute ago. Second Maccabee seven. Oh, second favorite Bible verse. No. First John four 18. Was that saying perfect love casts out all fear.

So what do you fear? We never gone into it. Well, it's funny that you mentioned your fears because I think they're very similar. Yeah. And I think it's pretty common to have this fear of not being liked or to be wrong. I think both of those things.

James Caldwell (36:49.826)
are pretty natural. But it brings me back to, it brings me back to a trip that I went on when I was in college. We went down to Panama city beach, Florida, and the mission trip was literally to spring break the spring break crowd. Like we went down and it was a little bit of a twist. Like when we're just handing out Bibles, like the whole, the whole essence of the trip was to have meaningful conversation with people. You.

didn't even need to say Jesus's name if you didn't feel like the Holy Spirit was pulling you to that kind of evangelization. But these people, a lot of them are just going for the fun of it, whatever, but there are people that are lost souls down there too. And you just trust that the Holy Spirit is leading you where he wants you to be. But that trip was such an affront against those two fears of mine. One, not being liked, two, being wrong. Like presenting an idea to someone and them thinking I'm wrong and not liking me for it. Like, ooh.

So your job was, not job, but the goal was to strike up a conversation with a total stranger. Total strangers. And then just see where it Let the Holy Spirit guide it towards whatever. Interesting. And it became, it was a lot of interesting conversations. I can imagine. But one of the things that I would do before each day, like we would go down to the beach and the beach was like packed and it was pretty intimidating.

But I remember when I would pray before, I would always just go and imagine what that beach would look like that night when it was just empty and calm and everything had been said and done. And it's like recognizing like, it's all going to be good in the end. Like it's all like ordered towards God's glory. Just like he's not expecting success of you necessarily. He's expecting obedience. He's expecting your availability to his spirit. And that was a beautiful.

reminder for me, as I think a lot of us can be scrupulous too in our, in our fear, like a fear of wanting to do what's right, but failing. Um, I would say that's not as much kind of a fear for me as much as it used to be. Um, because again, God is not expecting us to be perfect. I think he's just calling us to again, that kind of radical availability of just, which I think is maybe even harder. Like I can hide behind like, Oh, I get good grades and I do well at work and I do this, that, and the other thing. And I like check the boxes, but it's like,

James Caldwell (39:08.034)
just being available to God. It's like a scary thing. It looks like the camera move. That was weird. That was the Holy Spirit prompting. So Dan, can you watch scary movies? What was your question, your opening question? I was gonna say, is there value in scary movies since the topic is fear. Yeah, go ahead. I was gonna say like.

This I think applies to scary video games, scary movies, scary media. And I think there's as a, as a disclaimer, I feel like if, if, if your constitution is not, uh, made for that kind of a thing, like that's totally fine. And I think there's a lot of scary movies that are just trashy trash. It's sex and violence. Just shock sake. But I think there are a lot of,

very valid and relevant stories that are scary stories. And I feel like a lot of the time, I feel like Bishop Barron is actually really, really good at tackling, tackling cultural things that other people don't want to talk about. But I feel like scary stories as, as Catholic men, at least the ones that have moral value to them, I feel like we should be talking about them a little bit because the whole essence to me of, of a

scary story, what's the whole point is that there is something that is causing you to be fearful and it's calling you to overcome that fear in a moral battle between good and evil and I think there's value in that. But what do you think? Well, I was gonna ask what's an example of a really good scary story or scary movie that you've watched that you found tremendous value in? Let me think. None, I guess none. No, I'm just kidding. Nothing.

Nothing. The answer is the end of the episode. Yeah, I think the safe example for me is a movie like signs Really? Okay. Yeah, how come? Because I mean, I don't think I don't think it plays the game that a lot of horror movies play where I was great like It's gratuitous sex. It's gratuitous violence just to shock you. I don't think there's a particular there's a lot of violence in it like I Spoiler alert for a 20 year old movie like they chop off the aliens fingers at one point. Mm -hmm, but like I

James Caldwell (41:35.278)
there's not a lot of the stuff that would, I think rightly so turn away people who want to, you know, live a virtuous life and taking good content. But there's, I think a story of growth, a story, there's a whole story arc about the main character kind of overcoming the loss of his life, the story of his brother kind of, I don't know, not really coming of age, but like maturing. And this kind of.

the value of this family coming together. Because I'm pretty sure the whole movie is supposed to just be a metaphor for their loss or whatever and how that binds them together. But I think there is a lot of value in that story and I don't think we should shy away from a genre just because there are a lot of bad examples within that genre. I agree. Well, I watched, oh my gosh, I'm blanking with Jim from The Office. Quiet Place. Thank you. Yeah. I loved that movie.

Amazing movie. So I hadn't watched really a scary movie in a while and I watched that because I heard good things about it and there was tremendous value in that and I think I mean movies in general any any art form As long as it is upholding the good the true and the beautiful Then why not watch it? Right, right. So like like you said earlier too if people have

you know, a disposition like if you watch scary movies, like everything goes in your head and you can't sleep that night, then maybe it's just not for you then. But for those of you who that's not an issue, there is value in even just being scared in general, because I think we talked about too, just being comfortable. Yeah, I think there's value in being scared. Yeah, right? Because it's something that, it's not really an emotion that you experience very often.

that most of us don't experience very often, right? So like A Quiet Place, I think I like movies that are more suspenseful that leave you guessing versus like a true scary, like, cause there are some movies out there that like legit just scare the ish out of you, right? And I don't find value in that per se, but like something like The Quiet Place where it very strong family,

James Caldwell (43:59.246)
bond and value and for those of you don't know, what's Jim's real name?

Oh my gosh John yeah, thank you so his wife who's Emily Blunt and thank you Emily Blunt Is his wife in real life and in the movie so she is pregnant double wife double wife so So not come here to say that John Krasinski is a polygamist

We love John Krasinski, he's awesome. So anyway, so in the movie, the aliens, I'm telling you guys this for a reason. So the aliens basically, they respond to sound, okay? They're blind somehow, so they respond to sound. And so the whole goal obviously is in order to survive, you have to stay silent. So the whole basically premise of it is that it follows this family, but the mom is pregnant.

So you know obviously what's coming, right? Babies make noise, huh? Babies make noise when they're born, right? And so another great thing too is a pro -life message as well is that you would think, oh, why don't you just abort the baby? Because I would take care of all the issues, right? And you'll all be safe. Your quality of life will be better. Exactly, than the baby that's growing inside the mom's womb. OK, so that's like kind of the undertone there, right? Yeah. But so that's in the back of your mind, OK? And then it's just this family that's trying to figure out.

you know, how are they gonna negotiate? Where are they gonna go? Like how are they gonna survive this whole thing? But it's very suspenseful because another thing I liked about it too is that I think a lot of horror films, especially when they're doing like aliens or like extraterrestrial type stuff is that you see the alien too quickly and it loses that suspense factor for you. The best horror films that I have seen, it...

James Caldwell (46:00.494)
they have the element of like signs, right? You don't see an alien until the very last scene basically. And even then it was just like a mirror, like a reflection of it too. I don't think you've fully seen like a full shot of it. And those are the best ones because you have to have the element of suspense or surprise because that's what keeps you kind of on the edge of your seat. It's like, what do they actually look like? Like, you know, and stuff like that. So.

Oh, go ahead. I forgot where I was going with this. Well, I was going to, I was going to ask if I can, I'm going to take one step over that line. Step over the line. So we talked about aliens. We talked about those kinds of scary movies. So I know a lot of people take issue with like if something they go, I can't, I'll watch like a scary movie, but I won't watch a movie if there's like demons. Oh, paranormal. Yeah. Not because that's real. And that's what do you think about that? So that was my mindset for a long time, actually.

because I knew it was real, right? And so like the other genres, I'm like, okay, I can watch that because I know it's fake, you know? But like paranormal activity freaked me out. Freaked me out, okay? But then I started doing like spiritual warfare, like I started listening to Father Ripper Gurren's stuff and he's like, that's so rare, you know? Like I don't, he never talked about paranormal activity in particular, but he's like levitating. He's like, that rarely happens.

you know, during like an exorcism and things like that. People who are like, they see a movie that's scary or they hear a story and they're like, Oh my gosh, what if I get possessed? Like something I heard from multiple sources, father Vincent Lampert Lampert, I think. Yeah. And also from who's the classic that got the from Rome. He wrote extra cells. Oh, oh, Gabriel and more. Yes. Yes. They say that actually like, because exorcism isn't even

It's not a sacrament. It's like, I think they describe it as a sacramental. Um, and if someone is regularly going to the sacrament of confession, that's the best 10 times more powerful than exorcism ever would be. Right. Because it's putting sins, it's putting anything that a demon could, could get a foothold on completely takes them off of you. Right. Right. It gives it completely, you know, covers those defenses. But like I, I honestly, I love that topic. Again, they always talk about,

James Caldwell (48:19.598)
there's a certain element of interest in the demonic that you can hold. You shouldn't be so interested that it becomes kind of a perverse obsession and you shouldn't ignore it. And that's one of the things I love about those particular scary stories, those scary movies, or just like stories of kind of demonic things happening in the world. Because at first it freaks me out, which we already talked about the value of fear and like, okay, what's going on?

But then it's just this reminder of like, oh, like that cannot be like, if you talk about like, oh, this person was crawling on the ceiling, speaking with two different voice, like, and you're like, okay, well that's maybe not just a psychological explanation. And then the flip side, you go, wait a minute. So that's kind of a pretty good argument for something supernatural going on. And for me, that's just a bolster to my faith. Cause I'm like, oh, it's a reminder of the supernatural. And then I'm like, well, wait,

If the demons are real, this is just a reassurance of the presence of God and like how much more powerful he is. And it's like, dang, it's for me, it's a reminder of that battle that you're talking about, the spiritual warfare. It's like, oh, this is real. We've landed ourselves in the middle of a battlefield and we're too comfortable to realize it all too often. And I think stuff like that, stuff that makes you afraid, stuff that makes you, you know, a little bit off center is exactly what we need.

because like it or not, we're in the middle of that battle. Right, well 100%. And I think too, recognizing the reality of the spiritual battle that we're facing every day, and like when it comes to spiritual warfare, again, it comes back to fear, you have nothing to fear from demons if you are relying on Jesus. Amen. Right, but if you are, if it becomes something that,

you are like freaking out about because of the demonic, I don't want to be possessed and like that, that is an unhealthy fear, right? But at the same time you have to have a certain amount of respect and not, you know, like play around with that idea as well. Like people who use like Ouija boards or who like try to consult the dead and things like that, like you're, you're playing with. Yeah, exactly. Well, I mean, there's a reason for that. Yeah. To avoid that. Well, and again, so much weird activity comes out of.

James Caldwell (50:44.046)
out of again using Ouija boards and you know a lot of people are like oh come on give me a break that's it's just a game it's like no it's now yeah you're playing fire anytime that we consult a spirit whether it's you know whether we're feel like we're just kind of playing a game or whatever or or not like it's getting into dangerous territory absolutely yeah so there's that line you have to balance like if you're watching like the exorcism of Emily Rose or the exorcist or things like that personally I thought was an

It's an incredible movie. Yeah, absolutely. But again, if that's something that, because you can watch that with a certain amount of fear, but also recognizing the value of it as well and seeing the meaning behind it. If you're just doing it just, I think too, with everything we consume, we have to have a purpose behind it. So if you're just watching it and just to get like, thrills.

Yeah, like I don't think there's nothing inherently wrong with that, but I think at the same time, there's nothing valuable. And like you said, watching like a really trashy horror film. Like that's - Right, I think that's inherently negative. Yeah, exactly. So you're just lessening your own - Well, yeah. I mean, whatever you put into your mind obviously is gonna stay around. So I think -

Something like the exorcism Emily Rose and things like that. Again, if your disposition is like, this is gonna freak me out and I'm gonna have nightmares for seven days, then you should probably just avoid those types of films. But if you're someone who understands the purpose behind it, I think there's value in that. I don't see there as an issue for that at all. So that's my answer.

Is there value in watching horror films or scary films?

James Caldwell (52:40.622)
But it's just like any movie though, like there's terrible comedies, but there's really good comedies that... What lens are you looking for in watching these movies? Well yeah, I mean I remember reading... It was a clip of Kobe Bryant, may he rest in peace, and he was talking about becoming like a great basketball player and he said...

One thing he learned early on is that I looked, like my perspective was through the lens of how is this gonna make me a better basketball player? And he said, if that, that was my focus entirely. And he said, so I started seeing value in other crafts. So like other athletes in different, totally different sports, I think he said even in music, right? So if that is my sole focus,

then I can start to see the world through those particular eyes. So if we as Catholics see the eyes as Christ wants us to see the world, then everything we consume, everything we hear, everything we taste, it becomes something that can either build us up, drops closer to the kingdom, or it can lead us away. But the point is that that perspective is always focused on the things above.

Well, yeah. And you know, it comes back to the gospel reading today or not gospel, but the old Testament reading second Mac and B seven. Like if you're being put before the executioner, King Antiochus is telling you he's going to kill you unless you, I don't know if they were, they just had to eat meat or something. Eat pork, eat pork. Like of any situation where you would experience fear, I feel like today's reading is a pretty, pretty high level and those guys were not afraid. And so the question becomes,

How were they not afraid? And I think the answer to that question is revealed in the reading itself. Is there conviction of the reality of God and the reality of heaven and the reality of the resurrection? And, and I think that's part of the practical takeaway of our conversation is like, how can we live? And again, I speak as a hypocrite, but I recovering hypocrite, like how can we live with, with less fear is.

James Caldwell (55:08.718)
is really embracing the true vision of creation of, of remembering heaven is real. God is real. And if these are things that you're struggling with, like myself, sometimes meditate on that, pray with that, like take that to a spiritual director. That is so crucial and so fundamental because if we don't really believe that, if we don't really have that as a basis of our understanding of reality, we're gonna, we're always going to be afraid, but like,

when we really do recognize God's existence, his presence with us, the reality of heaven and heavenly things, things are a lot less scary. It's this kind of memento mori of like, remember, you're gonna die.

Thank you all so much for tuning in to another episode of the Man with the Calvary. If you have not already done so, please hit that subscribe button wherever you get your podcasts to make sure you don't miss a single episode. It will also help grow the show and reach as many men as possible. We truly think this podcast can change families and help men to change the world. Thank you again so much for tuning in and God bless you.

James Caldwell (56:25.646)
Like you're not telling them something about your, you're a beggar telling another beggar where to find where you found food. Like you encountered Christ and you want to bring him to them. It has nothing to do with you or anything you can give. It has everything to do with what he offers and share and being willing to share that. And I think, I think that's it. Hmm. Sounds like Dan's challenge. Oh gosh. Why you didn't know.

I don't see this coming. Dance, shout, no, no, it's good. You basically just said it. So for the challenge this week, I think it'd be a good idea then to, I'd say go in front of the Blessed Sacrament if you are able to and just reflect on what you are afraid of and just give to God right in front of the sacrament. That's my challenge. Why are you afraid of that? And what's God's response?

Yeah, that's your stomach. That's coffee talking. It's the Catholic coffee. St. Patrick's Irish cream. Boom. 50 % off. 15. Oh, sorry. 15 % off. I knew it was too good to be true. All right, everyone, thanks for tuning in to another episode of the Manly Catholic. Go out there and be a saint.